Talk:Shattered Stars and Stripes: The New Deal
Upvoteanthology I would like to nominate Upvoteanthology for modship in SSSND [[User:TechnicallyIAmSean|'Hail Sean, Khan of Khans!']] (Free potatoes) 18:42, April 15, 2015 (UTC) I second that. Spartian300 (talk) 08:07, April 16, 2015 (UTC) Up is legit. She helps out a lot on things, and is pretty enthusiastic as well. I say go for it. [[User:Saturn120|'Saturn120']] 19:25, April 16, 2015 (UTC) Wait, up is a girl? Spartian300 (talk) 19:37, April 16, 2015 (UTC) Spar, yes, upvote is a girl. Also I support her modship [[User:firesofdoom|'Fires']]ofdoom 00:14, April 17, 2015 (UTC) I second this. ;) [[User:Upvoteanthology|'' Oi mate, '']][[User Talk:Upvoteanthology|'' did someone say Texas? '']] TechnicallyIAmSean I would like to nominate TechnicallyIAmSean for Modship in Shattered Stars and Stripes: The New Deal, having experience with the previous games of the Franchise and sometimes, his witty personality. Graham Industries. Creating the future, today. (talk) 19:26, April 19, 2015 (UTC) I accept this nomination and thank Ace for nominating me. [[User:TechnicallyIAmSean|'Hail Sean, Khan of Khans!']] (Free potatoes) 19:32, April 19, 2015 (UTC) Daxus Inferno I'd like to nominate myself. I feel this game has too few mods to handle this many players and problems may soon arise. I'm a generally fair mod and mainly spend my time responding as NPCs, cleaning up ASB plots, and making sure the map is always up-to-date. Morgan Freemen but With A Lamer Voice (talk) 20:21, April 19, 2015 (UTC) I have like 0 athority, but I second that Bruh, this is a vote. You would at least have 1 authority. [[User:TechnicallyIAmSean|'Hail Sean, Khan of Khans!']] (Free potatoes) This isn't a vote, this is a fourm where people speak for or against potential mods. #PraiseRoosevelt. 20:06, April 21, 2015 (UTC) Requests for upgrades If you belive your nation should be in a different location on the tiers list, or if you think a city should be moved up or down, do so here. Issues I have some major issues with some of the Tiers. I'll start in order Tier 1 I don't think Ohio should be Tier 1. It's a Mid-West state with a notable center of industry and population but nothing else; their real power is that they vote super early. I think Ohio should be Tier 3. Tier 3 I literally have no idea why Oklahoma would be on this list. At this time it barely has a sizeable population and is being ravaged by the Dust Bowl. Oklahoma should obviously be Tier 5. Colorado also has no reason to be this tier. At this time it also had a fledgling population, no real industry, and the pains of the Dust Bowl I think Colorado should be Tier 4 Tier 4 Neither Dakota should be on here. No real industry and no real population, even to this day. Dakotas being Tier 4 are more of misfits than Oklahoma being Tier 3. They should both be Tier 5. Montana should also be Tier 5. Again, no real industry or population. Utah should also be Tier 5. It does have more of a population but it has few resources and most of the state is an unusable wasteland. Edge's Response The tiers is based off of how a nation would do in an algorithim'' if it had no player interaction'', which is why Ohio is so high up. While Ohio may only have a few centers of industry and population, it still has the fourth largest popultion at this point and one of the highest industrial outputs. Ohio stays in tier 1. Keep in mind that, according to the 1930 US census, Oklahoma outpopulated Louisiana, South Carolina, Florida, Washington, Oregon, and more, so to make the claim that it has barely a sizable population means that you must make the same claim for those nations. Also keep in mind the fact that the Dust Storm doesn't start picking up until this year in terms of gameplay. PBS states that there where 14 dust storms in 1932, but they began to pick up in 1933 when there was 38. This algo places nations where they would be as of Midnight of January First, 1933. The tier list in this game is comparative. The Tier list essentially takes each nation and says "Who would win if these two went to war with no major determining factors." So take Ohio for example. Pit it in a 1 one 1 conflict with any nation in tier 3. Assume both sides are stable, neither have popular revolt/other bonuses, neither have incompetent leadership, and that weather conditions are perfect for combat. You will find that almost always, Ohio wins the war. Of course, there are a lot of grey spaces in this tier list. The example you bring up with Colorado is a perfect example of this. Colorado could be in either tier, but because of the number of nations allowed in each tier, it was allowed in tier 3. If I made the number of nations in tier 3 smaller, Colorado moves down. If I make it bigger, other nations move up. The Tier list is desgined this way because if I didn't do it like this, only a few states would actually be decent. The way you want me to do it is to have it be more subjective than comparitive. Doing it that way would have New York, Pennslyvania, and Illinois in Tier 1, and then California, Michigan, and Texas in tier 2. Most of the nations would then fall into tier 4 or 5. While that may be historically accurate, no one would want to play that. And while I would like to make the game as accurate as possible, it's not going to last if it has no one to play it. #PraiseRoosevelt. 19:52, April 17, 2015 (UTC) Yeah, I'm Tier two! Spartian300 (talk) 20:09, April 17, 2015 (UTC) Oh wait, nevermind. Spartian300 (talk) 20:11, April 17, 2015 (UTC) Test post z The Oregon War (1934-193X) Californian Federation *Tier: +10 *Military Developement: 1/0=1*2.5=2.5 *Economy Development: 1/2*2,5=1.25 *Strategic Modifers:+12 *Motive: +7 **Strategic: +3 **+4 *Population: 6+8=+14 *Technology: +2 *Climate and Geography: 0 *Location: +10 *Special Locations: LA(4)+SF(1)+1 capital=+6 *Nations per Side: Cali(L)=+20 *Number of Troops: +2.5 *Recent Wars: 0 *Fronts: 0 Total: 89.25 Oregon and Friends *Tier: +2 *Military Developement: nope *Economy Development: 4/1=4*1.5=6 *Infrastrucutre: +2 *Strategic Modifers:+5 *Motive: +7.5 **Defending core for non-lethal I guess?: +5 **+4 **Washinton Motive:+3 **Modifier:+3 *Population: +2 *Technology:+0 *Climate and Geography: 0 *Location: +25 *Special Locations: 2 capitals=+2+2=+4 *Nations per Side: Oregon(CL) Washinton (CL) =+20 *Number of Troops: +3.1+2 *Recent Wars: 0 *Fronts: 0 Total: 78.6 Result 6% max 3% in a year 4% in 2 Disscussion Basically Cali can still choose to send more troops War of the Northeast (1935-19XX) Southern Front Coalition Forces *Tier:+8 *Military Developement:3/1=3*2.5=7.5 *Economy Development:2/1=2*2.5=5 *Strategic Modifers:+2+5 *Motive:8 **Motive:4 **Modifiers:4 *Population:6+2 *Technology:+2 *Climate and Geography:0 *Location:+20 *Special Locations:+4 *Nations per Side:Ohio (L) CoWM (S)=+25 *Number of Troops:+2.5+2 *Recent Wars:0 *Fronts:0 Michigan *Tier:+3.5 *Military Developement:1/3=.33*2=.66 *Economy Development:1/2=.5*2=1 *Infrastrucutre: *Strategic Modifers:+5 *Motive: **Motive:10 **Modifiers:+3 *Population:+4 *Technology:+2 *Climate and Geography:0 *Location:+25 *Special Locations:+4+2=6 *Nations per Side:Michigan:+20 *Number of Troops:1.5 *Recent Wars:-3 *Fronts:0 Total:78.66*1.5=117.99 Result The coalition takes 22% in 2 years See below Disscussion So beacuse of the Popular revolt, The Coalition can now take 14% in 3 years and 17% in 4 Battle Lines Stall, and Ohio takes 14% of Michigan before Michigan forces can stop them. Counter attack is needed for Michigan to reclaim any land. but I would say that this war is over. Can I counter attack? Spartian300 (talk) 15:48, April 22, 2015 (UTC) You can but you would lose the popular revolt. #PraiseRoosevelt. 15:49, April 22, 2015 (UTC) Which means? Spartian300 (talk) 15:50, April 22, 2015 (UTC) That 1.5 that allowed you to win? that's the popular revolt. #PraiseRoosevelt. 16:10, April 22, 2015 (UTC) Eastern Front Illinois *Tier: +8 *Military Development: +2/3=.66/1=.66*2.5=1.65 *Economy Development: +0 *Strategic Modifiers: +7 *Motive: +3 **Motive: +0 **Modifiers: +5 *Population: +7+2 *Technology: +2 *Climate and Geography: -0 *Location: +20 *Special Locations: +4+1 *Nations per Side: Illinois (L) +20 *Number of Troops: +2+2 *Recent Wars: NA *Fronts:3 Total: 44.65 Michigan *Tier:+3.5 *Military Developement:1/.66=1*2=2 *Economy Development:1/2=.5*2=1 *Infrastrucutre: *Strategic Modifers:+5 *Motive: **Motive:10 **Modifiers:0 (Gov just came out of a Civil War, not going to be univiersally supported) *Population:+4 *Technology:+2 *Climate and Geography:0 *Location:+25 *Special Locations:+4+2=6 *Nations per Side:Michigan:+20 *Number of Troops:1.5 *Recent Wars:-3 *Fronts:0 Total:57 Result Michigan throws back the attack Northern Front Illinois *Tier: +12 *Military Development: +2/3=.66/1=.66*2.5=1.65 *Economy Development: +0 *Strategic Modifiers: +7+5 *Motive: +3 **Motive: +0 **Modifiers: +5 *Population: +7+2 *Technology: +2 *Climate and Geography: -0 *Location: +20 *Special Locations: +4+1 *Nations per Side: Illinois (L) +20 *Number of Troops: +2+2 *Recent Wars: NA *Fronts:3 Total: 53.65 Wisconsin *Tier: +.5 *Military Development: 1/2=.5*1=.5 *Economy Development: +1 *Infrastructure development: +2 *Strategic Modifiers: +5 *Motive: +9 **Motive: +5 **Modifiers: +4 *Population: +2 *Technology: +2 *Climate and Geography: -0 *Location: +25 *Special Locations: +1 *Nations per Side: Wisconsin (L) +20 *Number of Troops: +1 *Recent Wars: NA *Fronts: NA Total: 63 result Thrown back disscusion This war is just Illonois Vs. Wisconsin. Neither Ohio or Michagan is involved About that. See, by invading Wisconsin while you're at war with me, you brought them into the war. Spartian300 (talk) 15:18, April 20, 2015 (UTC) Southwestern Front Missouri *Tiers:+2 *Military:0/.66=0 *Economy:2/0=2*1.5=3 *Strategic Modifers:+2+4-5-5=-6 *Motive:+3+4 *Population:3 *Technology:+2 *Climate and Geography:0 *Location:+20 *Specials:+5+1 *NPS: Missouri (L)=+20 *Number of Troops:+1.5+2 *RECENT WARS:N/A *Fronts:N/A Total:54.5 Illinois *Tiers:+10 *Military:.66*2.5=1.65 *Economy: *Strategic Modifers:+15 *Motive:5+4=9 *Popualtion:7+5 *Technology:+2 *Climate and Geography *Location:+25 *Specials:+5 *NPS: Illinois (L) Indiana (M) +30 *Number of Troops:+1 *Fronts:3 Total:70.65 Result Attack is thrown back Disscussion South Eastern Front Kentucky *Tier:.5 *Military:0 *Economy:+2/1=2*1=2 *Strategic modifers:+2+4-5-5 *Motive:+3+4=7 *Population:=2 *Tech:+2 *Climate and Geography:0 *Location:+20 *Specials:1 *NPS: Kentucky (L) *Number of Troops:+1 *Fronts:0 Total:51.5 Ohio *Tier:+12 *Military:1.5/0*2.5=1.65 *Economy:1/2=.5*2.5=1.25 *Strategic Modifers:+5 *Motive;5+4=9 *Population:6+5 *Tech:+2 *Climate and Geography:0 *Location:+25 *Specials:+3+1 *Capitals:+1 *NPS: Ohio (+20) Indiana (+10) *Number of Troops:1.5+2=3.5 *Fronts:2 Total:85.4 Result Attack is thrown back Disscussion Result Michigan collapses in a year This algo is irrelevant. Wisconsion was invaded to, so it should be changed. Spartian300 (talk) 10:31, April 20, 2015 (UTC) This algo factors that in. #PraiseRoosevelt. 15:17, April 20, 2015 (UTC) And why is my score so low? It should be better then that. I mean, the current government is seen as liberators from the UFM. Spartian300 (talk) 15:19, April 20, 2015 (UTC) Correcting a few mistakes I made. #PraiseRoosevelt. 16:10, April 20, 2015 (UTC) The only one too make gains now in Ohio against Michigan. Edge, be a good capitalist and supply me as well. Spartian300 (talk) 18:08, April 20, 2015 (UTC) Michigan attack on Illinois Michagan *Tier:2+4=6/2=3=+2 *Military Developement:1/.66=1*2=2 *Economy Development:3/2=1.5*2=3 *Strategic Modifers:+2 *Motive: +5 *Modifiers:0 (Gov just came out of a Civil War, not going to be univiersally supported) *Population:+6 *Technology:+2 *Climate and Geography:0 *Location:+17.5 *Special Locations:+4+2=6 *Nations per Side:Michigan (CL) Wisoncsin ©:+20 *Number of Troops:2 *Recent Wars:-6 *Fronts: 2 *Total: 41.5 Illinois *Tier: +10 *Military Development: +2/3=.66/1=.66*2.5=1.65 *Economy Development: +0 *Strategic Modifiers: +10 *Motive: +5 *Modifiers: +5 *Population: +7+2 *Technology: +2 *Climate and Geography: -0 *Location: +25 *Special Locations: +4+1 *Nations per Side: Illinois (L) +20 *Number of Troops: +2+2 *Recent Wars: NA *Fronts: 2 *Total: 76.65 result Counter fails. Illionis Counters in the South Illinois *Tier: +10 *Military Development: +2/2=2/1=2*2.5=5 *Economy Development: +0 *Strategic Modifiers: +7+5 *Motive: 10 **Motive: +5 **Modifiers: +5 *Population: +7+2 *Technology: +2 *Climate and Geography: -0 *Location: +20 *Special Locations: +4+1 *Nations per Side: Illinois (L) +20 *Number of Troops: +2+2 *Recent Wars: NA *Fronts:2 Total: 57 Missouri *Tiers:+2 *Military:0/.66=0 *Economy:2/0=2*1.5=3 *Strategic Modifers:+5 *Motive:+5+4 *Population:3 *Technology:+2 *Climate and Geography:0 *Location:+20 *Specials:+5+1 *NPS: Missouri (L)=+20 *Number of Troops:+1.5+2 *RECENT WARS:N/A *Fronts:N/A Total:66.5 Results Counter fails. Kentucky Crusades (Part of the Northeastern War) (1936-193X) Coalition counter attack Coalition Forces *Tier:+1+2=3/2=1.5~1=+12 *Military Developement:3/2=1.5+4/2=3.5/.5=3.5*2.5=8.75 *Economy Development:2/2=1+3/2=2.5/.5=2.5 *Strategic Modifers:+2+5+5 *Motive:7.83 **Motive:4+3=7/2=3.5 **Modifiers:4+4+5=4.3 *Population:6+3=9/2=4.5+5=9.5 *Technology:+2 *Climate and Geography:-5 *Location:+20 *Special Locations:+4 *Nations per Side:Ohio (CL) Indiana (CM) CoWM (CS)=+25 *Number of Troops:+2.5+1+2=5.5 *Recent Wars:0 *Fronts:2 Total:100.8 Kentucky *Tier:.5 *Military:0 *Economy:+2/2=1/3.5=.28 *Strategic modifers:5 *Motive:+10+4=14 *Population:=2 *Tech:+2 *Climate and Geography:0 *Location:+20 *Specials:1 *NPS: Kentucky (L) Virgina (M)=+30 *Number of Troops:+2 *Fronts:2 Total:51.5 Result 23% Max 11% in 1 year, 17% in 2 Pennslyvanian Invasion Pennsylvania *Tier:+12 *Military:3/0=3*2.5=7.5 *Economy:3/1*2.5=7.5 *Strategic Modifers:+2+5+5=12 *Motive:2+0 (Gov Nuetral, Rebels never adressed)=2 *Population:9+5=14 *Climate and Geograpy:-5 *Tech:+2 *Specials:4+3=7 *Location:+20 *capitals:+3 *NPS: Pennslyvania (20) *Troops:+2 *Fronts:0 Total:104 Kentucky *Tier:.5 *Military:0 *Economy:+2/2=1/3.5=.28 *Strategic modifers:5 *Motive:+10+4=14 *Population:=2 *Tech:+2 *Climate and Geography:0 *Location:+20 *Specials:1 *NPS: Kentucky (L) Virgnina (M)=+30 *Number of Troops:+2 *Fronts:2 Total:62.5 Result 24% max 12% in a year 18% in 2 Disscussion Probably the last war to use this algo. Uhh, the algo for my attack on Illinois should be Michigan + Wisconsin. And what the hell is wrong with Sat? He just got an alliance with Vat, now he sorta broke it? What? His turns confused me.Spartian300 (talk) 22:10, April 21, 2015 (UTC) So I am not going to bother because We are already on the second year of the war, so it would collapse anyway. #PraiseRoosevelt. 01:54, April 22, 2015 (UTC) Dust Bowl War Attacker *Tier: +4 *Military Development: +3/0=3*1=3 *Economy Development: +2/2*1=2 *Strategic Modifers:+12 *Motive: +6 **Motive:3 **Modifiers: +3+5 *Population: +3 + 10 *Technology: +2 *Climate and Geography: 0 (same climate) *Location: +10 *Special Locations: +3 (2 Capitals) *Nations per Side: +20 *Number of Troops: +2.5+5 *Recent Wars: -10 for Dust Bowl *Fronts: 0 Total: 75.5 Defender *Tier: +1 *Military Development:0 *Economy Development:2/2=1*1=1 *Infrastrucutre: 2 *Larger Economy: 0 *Larger Industry: 0 *Motive: +10 **Motive **Modifiers: +4 *Population: 0 *Technology: +2 *Climate and Geography: 0 (Same climate) *Location: +25 *Special Locations: +1 *Nations per Side: + 20 *Number of Troops: +1 *Recent Wars: 0 *Fronts: 0 Total: 67 Result 6% max 3% in a year 4% in 2 Disscussion I think Iowa might deserve popular revolt bonus, but that's up to the mods. Also, I'm not sure how development works for NPCs. Shikata ga nai! 23:43, April 19, 2015 (UTC) Who are you attacking here? West Virginia So I'm in charge of Virgnia, and I was invading West Virginia. But Pennsylvania, which I'm assuming didn't see that I invaded, asked West Virginia to join with them. They did join with Pennsylvania peacefully. I am opposed to this for many reasons. First of all, it makes far more sense for them to join with Virginia (which was randomly rejected), as we are extremely similar, and our only differences come from the civil war 90 years ago. Also, I invaded. Does this mean that I'm now at war with Pennsylvania? Or can I cancel the invasion? You could cancel. Best you do. You could also help me fight Ohio, and I might be able to help you gain some monies. Just go help Kentucky. Spartian300 (talk) 19:40, April 20, 2015 (UTC) If you withdraw, I can secure you an alliance and security with PA, with trade deals included. Plus, I'll grant you a county border if you do. [[User:Saturn120|'Saturn120']] 20:09, April 20, 2015 (UTC) So if both sides agree, then you can back out of the war. It appears that Penn is alright with back out of the war, so if you two reach an agreement #PraiseRoosevelt. 19:58, April 21, 2015 (UTC) Arguments against the Texan-Californian Union Alright so don't have a lot of time so I will just summarize my arguments for now. #Two Players as one nation has never been allowed in the SSS series, so one player here would have to give up there nation. As Up expalined on chat, this is two states forming one nation, not an alliance. Remeber that mergers like these have only ever happened on the final turn of the game. We have had players play as vassals before (See SSS1) but never play as a district in another nation. #The Larger economy (California) would be forced under a smaller economy (Union of the South). #It would break the game. These are the two largest nations West of the Mississippi and allowing them to merge would hand everything West of the river over to Up (remeber Sean would have to give up his nation). #Reforming the US in any form would be unpopular. Remeber all of these states left the US on there own terms, unlike the pervious 2 SSS games #Sets a precedence for 2 things: Vassal Spam and Multiplayer Nations. #Up's own strawpoll that she created (despite the fact that only the opinions of nuetral mods matters) voted no against the union. I also have rebuttals to Up's arguments presented in chat should they be needed. UNless you can convince me that this union is alright, then it is not going to fly. #PraiseRoosevelt. 17:06, April 21, 2015 (UTC) If we cannot both play, then it's a no-go. I'm not giving up my nation under any condition. So yeah, this is solved. Let's focus on some other stuff. [[User:TechnicallyIAmSean|'Hail Sean, Khan of Khans!']] (Free potatoes) 17:47, April 21, 2015 (UTC) Algo Reform So obviously, having done a few algos for this game, my idealistic approch to the algos was wrong. I will be refoming the algo soon. #PraiseRoosevelt. 20:37, April 21, 2015 (UTC) War on the Mississippi Confed of the Western Mississippi *Military:6 *Industry:6 *Technology:10 *Troops:+2 *Population:4+5=9 *Chance:+4 *Strategic Modifers:+5+5+6+5=21 *Motive: Attacking to enforce Politcial Hem (+5) Economic (+2) Strategic (+3)=3.3~3+4=7 *Location:+4 *Special Locations:+2 *Capitals:+3 *Fronts:0 *Recent Wars:0 Total:70 Tennesse *Military:+4 *Industry:+4 *Technology:+6 *Troops:+1 *Population:+2 *Motive:+5+4=9 *Chance:+9 *Strategic Modifers:+2 *Location:+5 *Special Locations:0 *Fronts:0 *Capitals:+1 *Fronts:0 Total:43 Result 23% max. 11% in a year, 17% in 2, 19% in 3 Disscussion This war was done Pre-Merger with Alabama.Should Alabama's player request, it will be changed #PraiseRoosevelt. 02:24, April 22, 2015 (UTC) Iowa's Invasion of Wisconsin (Part of the War in the North East) Iowa *Military:4 *Industry:3 *Tech:6 *Troops:+3+5=+8 *Population:+3+2=5 *Chance:8 *Location:4 *Strategic Modifers:+5+5+6=16 *Motive:Aiding Ally (+3) Strategic (+3)=3+3=6 *Special Locations:0 *Capitals:+3 *Fronts:0 *Recent Wars:-3 Total:60 Wisconsin *Military:5 *Industry:5 *Technology:10 *Troops:1 *Population:2 *Chance:6 *Location:+5 *Strategic Modifers:+2-3=-1 *Motive:Defending from Non-Leathal:+5=5+4=9 *Special Locations:0 *Capitals:1 *Fronts:-30 *Recent Wars:-9 Total:4 Result 1 year collapse. Wisconsin falls to Iowa. Disscussion Absoulte bullshit. Spartian300 (talk) 08:03, April 22, 2015 (UTC) Wisconsin is a higher Tier then Iowa. Spartian300 (talk) 08:04, April 22, 2015 (UTC) Check thw algo. Spartian300 (talk) 10:57, April 22, 2015 (UTC) Yeah, this is done wrong. Spartian300 (talk) 14:19, April 22, 2015 (UTC) Uhh no, it's not. The Old Algorithm was Defender Biased, which is why it was so easy for Wisconsin to hold back Illiniois. Summary of the Results for the Northeastern war So things in the North Eastern War have kinda gotten muddy, so here is a quick summary of the current results *Kentucky collapses to Coalition and Pennslyvania forces on after this year. *Litterally 0 changes in Illinois *Michigan has lost 14% of it's homeland to coalition efforts *Michigan had a military coup and is some kind of military dictatorship #PraiseRoosevelt. 02:31, April 22, 2015 (UTC) Both Indiana and Illinois have dropped out, so I can now focus on Ohio with my allies now, right? Spartian300 (talk) 08:02, April 22, 2015 (UTC) You don't have any Allies remaining. Kentucky is Dead. Missouri is fighting Illinois, and Wisconsin is dead. Wisconsin is WAY stronger then that, Edge. They beat Illinois, and they end up losing because the score is 4? That ain't right! Spartian300 (talk) 15:29, April 22, 2015 (UTC) Also, if Spar chooses to Counter attack, it will use the new algorithm instead of the old. Spar, the massive front and recent war penalties you inflicted on Wisconsin mean it was practically impotent. No surprise it lost. Shikata ga nai! 20:04, April 22, 2015 (UTC) War of Eastern Hegemony ASA *Military:10 *Industry:10 *Technology:10 *Number of Troops:+3+5=8 *Population:17+30=47 *Location:+3 *Chance:+9 *Strategic Modifers:+5+8+5+6=24 *Motive: Political Heg (+5) Strategic (+3)=4+4=8 *Capitals:+3 *Special Locations:+7 *Fronts:0 *Recent wars:0 Total:139 Deleware *Military:2 *Industry:2 *Technology:6 *Troops:1 *Population:0 *Location:5 *Chance:5 *Strategic Modifers:2 *Motive:Defending from a lethal Attack:+10+4=14 *Capitals:1 *Specials:0 *Fronts:0 *Recent Wars:0 Total:38 Result 2 year collapse. Disscussion Illonois attack on Missouri Illonois *military: +8 *induestry: +10 *technology: +10 *troops: +2.5+2 *population: +7+5 *location: +4 *chance: +2 *startgic mods: +5 *motive: +5+4 *capitals: +1 *special locations: +4 *fronts: -3 *Recent wars: -6 Total: 63.5 Missori *military: +5 *indestry: +4 *technology: +10 *troops: +2 *population: +3 *location: +5 *chance: +1 *strtigic mods: +2+5 *motive: +10+4 *capitals: +1 *special locations: +5 *fronts: -30 *recent wars: -6 toltal: 21 Western Front Iowa *Military: +5 +1 *Industry: +5 +1 *technology: +10 *troops: +3+2 *population: +6 *location: +4 *chance: +2 *startgic mods: +5 +6 *motive: +5 *capitals: +4 *special locations: 0 *fronts: N/A *Recent wars: -6 Total: 47 Missouri *military: +5 +1 *indestry: +5 +1 *technology: +10 *troops: +3 *population: +3 *location: +4 *chance: +7 *strtigic mods: +2+5 *motive: +10+4 *capitals: +1 *special locations: +5 *fronts: -30 *recent wars: -6 toltal: 23 result Illionis: 50% max. 25% in a year. Iowa:34% max, 17% in a year. Missouri collapses in a year. Discussion I added a second front, although Missouri clearly loses. Shikata ga nai! 22:03, April 22, 2015 (UTC) Need to work on the spelling. Also where the random +1's are coming from is beyond me. Michigan Counter attack Against Ohio Michigan *Military:+8 *Industry:+8+3.5 *Technology:+10+5 *Number of troops:+2.5 *Population:+4 *Chance:+8 *Strategic modifers:-4+2 *Motive:10 (Countering Major Enemy)+ 8(attacking major enemy with no desire to kill)=+9+3 *Special Locations:+4 *Capitals;+1 *Recent Wars:-12 Total:60*1.2=72 Ohio *Military:+10 *Industry:+10 *Tech:+10 *Troops:2.7 *Population:6+2 *Chance:+8 *Strategic Modifers:+2 *Motive:+8 (defending from major enemy) +3 (Defending Territory)=5.5+4=9.5 *Special Locations:+4 *Capitals;+1 *Recent Wars:-12 Total:53.2 Result 15% max 7.5% in a year 12.5% in 2 Occupied Michigan is retaken in 2 years. I cancled the attack. But considering it was close, I could have done it with some aid. Spartian300 (talk) 12:58, April 23, 2015 (UTC) Uhhh no you didn't. You are still involved in this. You can't just cancel attacks like this. This war still happened. #PraiseRoosevelt. 13:04, April 23, 2015 (UTC) I erased it from my turn. And did I get supplies? Spartian300 (talk) 13:08, April 23, 2015 (UTC) I added the supplies from Indiana, but it still isn't gonna be much better. Morman War Cali *Military:+8 *Industry:+8 *Technology:+10 *Troops:+3 *Population:+6+12 *Location:+2 *Chance:+8 *Strategic Modifers:+5+5 *Motive:+2+4=6 *Specials;+5 *Capitals:+3 *Recent Wars:-6 Total:78 Utah *Military:3 *Industry:+2 *Technology:+6 *Troops:+1.5 *Chance:+7 *Population:0 *Strategic Mods:+2 *Motive:+10+4=14 *Specials:+0 *Capitals:+1 *Recent Wars:0 Total:36.5 Result 36% max 18% in a year 27% in 2 30% in 3 31% in 4 32% in 5 33% in 6 Illonois VS. Iowa Illinois *military: +8+6 *indestry: +10+6 *Technology: +10+10 *troops: +3.5 *population: +7+2 *location: +4 *chance:+8 *stratigic mods: +5 *motive: Pre-empitive strike: +4, limiting rivil: +4+4| Aiding Ally, (+3) Limiting Rival (+4)=+3.5+4|8+7.5/2='7.75' *capitals: +4+3=7 * special locations: +3+4 *fronts: -30 *recent wars: -15 Toltal: 56.25 Iowa *military: +4 *industry: +5 *technology: +6 *troops: +3 *population: +6 *location: +5 *Chance:+2 *strategic mods: +2 *motive: defending from lethal: +10+3 *cpaitals: +3 *special locations: +2 *fronts: -30 *recent wars: -9 *toltal war: *1.2 Toltal: 45*1.2=54-30=24 Wisconsin front Illonis *military: +8 *indestry: +10 *Technology: +10 *troops: +3.5 *population: +7+2 *location: +4 *chance:+8 *stratigic mods: +5 *motive: Pre-empitive strike: +4, limiting rivil: +4+4 *capitals: +4 * special locations: 4+3 *fronts: -30 *recent wars: -15 Toltal: 31.5 Iowa *military: +4 *industry: +5 *technology: +7 *troops: +3 *population: +6 *location: +5 *Chance:+2 *strategic mods: +2+5 *motive: defending from lethal: +10+3 *cpaitals: +3 *special locations: +2 *fronts: -30 *recent wars: -9 *toltal war: *1.2 Toltal: 21.6 (With total war) Results Between Both Fronts: Iowa collapses in 2 years. Discussion Given that Iowa controls Wisconsin, I'm guessing its tiers should be those of Wisconsin, which are all significantly higher than the ones used here. Also, I'm activating total war, which means I get a 1.2 multiplier.. Shikata ga nai! 11:02, April 23, 2015 (UTC) YOU CAN'T JUST HAVE WORKED AROUND THIS AND TRIED TO HELP ME FIRST, COULD YOU? I NEED THOSE WEAPONS!!!!!!! Spartian300 (talk) 11:16, April 23, 2015 (UTC) I got invaded by a nation which had promised not to invade me. So no, we couldn't have worked around this. Also Fires, it's "Illinois" and not "Illonis". Shikata ga nai! 11:30, April 23, 2015 (UTC) Thanks for the correction kras, I'll add it in a minute. Second of all, i have added the front penelty on kras's side of the algo. This is because Dax has declared war on him, but I have yet to do that algo. F*** it all, I am invading Kras, then I start taking Toledo!!!! Spartian300 (talk) 12:46, April 23, 2015 (UTC) I'll fix this later, but Kras brings up a valid point that needs to be considered if it hasn't already. Remeber that you guys can't collapse Kras because this is a nonleathal attack. #PraiseRoosevelt. 13:03, April 23, 2015 (UTC) Since Fires is letting Dax move through his territory, it's all happening on the same front, and no penalty is applied. Shikata ga nai! 14:02, April 23, 2015 (UTC) Not nessacery. I don't know how much you Gave to Kansas, but there is still plenty of room for Two fronts. Actually, if you two would stop measuring dicks, and start giving me supplies, then I will aid whoever helps me the most against their opponent. Deal? Spartian300 (talk) 14:12, April 23, 2015 (UTC) Spar, if Dax invades through the same territory as Fires, it's happening on the same front. Also, I can't reasonably aid you while fighting a huge war, because I'll get penalties. Help me now, and I'll lead in the war against Ohio later.Shikata ga nai! 14:19, April 23, 2015 (UTC) Kras, we can still fight on two fronts. It would make sense that I attacked further too the north of Missori, because it is closer to your center of power. Meanwhile, it would make sense for Dax to attack in the south, as that way it's closer to him. I'm not exacully sure if that's what would happen, but we will get edge on it, and he can decide. Just make peace, and whoever aids me the most, I will aid in the coming Iowa-Illinois war. Spartian300 (talk) 14:44, April 23, 2015 (UTC) Ahem. So What kras says is correct. This war is being fought in Missouri primarly. For all intensve purposes, Confed of Western Miss and Illinois are fighting on the same front. Now if this was the Almost 3 algo it would be different. I spelling mistakes are so bad that I almost want to switch sides Daxus the Harbinger of Lameness (talk) 03:25, April 24, 2015 (UTC) Fires, I'm not sure if you understand the concept of a two-front war. A two-front war only occurs when one nation is fighting in two geographically separate locations (i.e. separated by neutral countries, oceans, mountain ranges, etc.). Germany fought a two-front war in WWI. So did France in the later Napoleonic Wars. However, a two-front war cannot exist when those fronts are not geographically separated, and when the same two nations are fighting on the same continent with no geographical obstacles in between, as we have here. Also, my recent wars penalty isn't -22. I have no idea where that came from. It should be lower than the penalty for Illinois and CWM.Shikata ga nai! 12:30, April 24, 2015 (UTC) Okay, the reason there is a two front war is because in addition to the Missori front, I began an attack in Wisconsin. That, I think, qualifys as two fronts, but I'm horrible at algos. Second, the reason your recent wars penelty is -22 kras. Becaus e last year, you had -12, if I am not mistaken. because you activated toltal war, that is another -10, which should be factored in. Lastly, you can do the algos yourself if you want. I mean, I will continue doing them, but at the same time I don't want to piss anyone off. In WWI, if Germany launched an offensive against Russia in Romania, it still occurred on the same front as a simultaneous offensive happening in Poland, because the same two countries were fighting on a geographically continuous front. Since there is fighting happening along a front stretching continuously from Wisconsin to Missouri, it cannot qualify as a second front. Also, Dax fought a war against Alabama, so that penalty needs to be factored in. Shikata ga nai! 16:33, April 24, 2015 (UTC) Not to mention I get the defensive line bonus (+5), my tiers still need to be raised to those of Wisconsin, and the new algo needs a new chance calculation.Shikata ga nai! 16:41, April 24, 2015 (UTC) This is one front. Spartian300 (talk) 17:38, April 24, 2015 (UTC) Michigan counter attacks Michigan ﻿ Ohio﻿ Pennslyvania War of Agression Penn's Attack Pennslyvania *Military:10 *Industry:10+4 *Technology:10+5 *Troops:+6 *Population:+9 *Location:+4 *Chance:8 *Strategic Modifers:No Air or Naval superiority=-6 *Motive:+10 (Attack Major Enemy) +2 (Economic) +3( Strategic) +4 (Limiting Rival)=4.75-5=-.25 *Capitals:+3 *Special Locations:+7 *Multiple Fronts:-30 (See below about the Socalist Revolts) *Recent Wars:-6 (2 years in Kentucky) Total:13.75 ASA *Military:10 *Industry:10 *Technology:10 *Troops:+7 *Population:+15+2=17 *Location:+5 *Chance:+6 *Strategic modifers:+5+2+2 *Motive: (Defending from a major enemy with intent to kill)+15+4 *Capitals:+4 *Special Locations:+7 *Multiple Fronts:-5 *Recent Wars:-6 Total:93 Result Thrown back in a year, with ease at that. Disscussion Before I begin, there are a couple of things that need to be adressed. #Socalist revolts. Upvote Gave Penn State Socalist Revolts, which Sat embraced. They took Philledalphia and then spread throughout the state. Becuase nothing has been mentioned about the revolts, they are still ongoing. This is something that was not noticed in the last algo, which means the war in Kentucky also needs to be redone. #Remeber that Politicans in Penn state urged the nation to invade Deleware. Sat chose not to, and the nation fell to the ASA These two factors lead Penn's gov to be unpopular. Now lets move on to the next part. Sat has urged all free nations to get inolved in the war. remeber 2 things with this, especially you, my fellow mods. Deleware holds 0 geopoltical improtance. It isn't DC. Doesn't have a large industrial capacity, resource base, or population. Few States, beyoned Pennslyvania and Maybe Maryland, would care about this. Also remeber that ASA troops have been stationed on the Border for several years, gun boats in lake Erie and off the coast, meaning that he has to go through defensive lines to get to me. Remeber that Sat's development has been mostly just saying "Military and Economy Improve" . As I already dissucssed with fellow mod Up, Navy needs to be mentioned in some extent. Military and Economy is simply too vague. sat was also told this on chat before he invaded. I hope that this justifaction stops people from making claims about algo rigging. #PraiseRoosevelt. 01:40, April 24, 2015 (UTC) ASA's Vengence ASA *Military:10 *Industry:10 *Technology:10 *Troops:+7 *Population:+15+2=17 *Location:+4 *Chance:+6 *Strategic modifers:+8+8+2=18 *Motive: Counter attacking Major Enemy (+10)=+10+4=14 *Capitals:+4 *Special Locations:+7 *Multiple Fronts:-5 *Recent Wars:-6 Total:96*1.2 Pennslyania *Military:10+8 *Industry:10+4+7 *Technology:10+5+5 *Troops:+4.5+ *Population:+11 *Location:+5 *Chance:8 *Strategic Modifers:+2 *Motive: Defending from Major Enemy with intent to kill:+15-4=+11| Aiding Ally (3) Limiting Potential Rival (+4)=7/2=3.5+4=7.5+11=9.25-2(1 citation) *Capitals:+3+1 *Special Locations:+7+1 *Multiple Fronts:-30 (See below about the Socalist Revolts) *Recent Wars:-10 (2 years in Kentucky) Total:69.25 Result 20% taken in the first year (Before Virgina Joined) 2% lost in the second year (18% taken of Virginia and Pennslyvania) 20% in 3 years (Of Virginia and Pennslyvania) 20% of Virginia and Pennslyvania is taken by the ASA. Disscussion Virginia joined this war. We're helping an ally and protecting from a potential rival and a major nation. Sign you posts please, and if you mean "Major Enemy" than no. the ASA and Virginia are not major enemies. #PraiseRoosevelt. 16:25, April 24, 2015 (UTC) To respond to something Vat put in his turn: Remeber that the ASA's Military tier is higher than Virgina's, so while he can put in his turn that he attacks the bases and blockades, there is no garuntee that he can break through the blockade or harm the bases.